SUBMIT Enhancements

nicc
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SUBMIT Enhancements Jul 25, 2015 4:17:23 GMT -5

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Post by nicc on Jul 25, 2015 4:17:23 GMT -5

Well, I thought I should have a stab at using SUBMIT so I read the command syntax and the "Working with SUBMIT". I was less than enligtened but I did learn about the RUN command so that is one thing solved - testing my rexx programs whilst writing them.

But as to SUBMIT... suggestion 1: could an example be included? In the end I got the thing to work by specifiying the full path to the .BAT file but it was all guesswork.
Which leads to suggestion 2: would it be possible to populate the prototype field from a 'browse for file' button?. BTW I had to enclose the path in quotes as it included spaces.
Having gotten the thing to execute the compiler being invoked threw a wobbly because the C source was now in a file with a .TXT extension hence suggestion 3: could the data to be processed by the submit command be copied to the JOBS folder with, at least, the same extension as the file it is coming from but, preferably, with the same name as the source that it comes from?

Re suggestion 2, this would be extremely helpful for those that are working with multiple languages and therefore need multiple batch files. An alternative could be to have an SPFLite job folder - not he JOBS folder, to hold ones .BAT files and when the SUBMIT command is entered SPFLite goes to that folder and presents one with the .BAT files in there and allows the user to select the file to be submitted. Sort of a mini FM.

I know that point 3 could, possibly, be resolved by code in the .BAT file.

Regards
Nic

George
Administrator

Posts: 4,052

SUBMIT Enhancements Jul 25, 2015 12:03:37 GMT -5

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Post by George on Jul 25, 2015 12:03:37 GMT -5

nicc: Let me throw in some more words.

If what you're attempting to do is compile the current edit file (assuming it is a source), then I don't think SUBMIT is the best choice.

You might want to have a look in the sample macros provided at one called PB.MACRO. It is one I use to compile PowerBasic source. It does the compile and if an error, will extract the error message, and position the edit session to the offending line and display the compiler error message.

Sure it will need to be played with to handle some other language's compiler, but is perhaps worth the effort.

You need a normal compile BAT file for the compiler since the macro invokes the BAT file.

But sitting in Edit on a source and issuing the simple command PB to do a compile is about as simple as you can get. Need different languages? Well once you get an initial one working, tweaking it into another language is fairly trivial.

George

nicc
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Posts: 114

SUBMIT Enhancements Jul 27, 2015 4:45:09 GMT -5

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Post by nicc on Jul 27, 2015 4:45:09 GMT -5

Example: a simple example, in "Working with SUBMIT" would be an example of the prototype command - the default line does not indicate a path, neither does the text. If one is not required where is the .bat to be placed?

What was my .bat doing? Simply invoking my C compiler (TCC) which requires one parameter - the file of C code to be compiled. This must have a file type of '.c'. The only line in this .bat file is: TCC %1 >%2. My prototype is: path\tcc_comp.bat ~i ~r

Path: Win 8.1 does not require paths that include spaces to have quotes around them.

"BROWSE for File" button: this would bring up a file tree window, as you get when you do a SAVEAS, from which you click on the file required and the box is populated with the full path and filename.

Hercules: The manual page for SUBMIT does not mention Hercules at all. It specificlly starts the Description with:
"The SPFLite SUBMIT primary command allows a program or batch file to be launched from SPFLite"
Hercules is not mentioned until the third paragraph of "Working with SUBMIT".

SUBARG: I am not sure about this but I think it does not resolve any of the problems. IT still needs a SUBMIT to work.
SUBCMD: fine - a way to alias SUBMIT to another command - in my case I have aliased it to RUN for my rexx stuff.

Today I ran a different batch file which simply ECHOed each parameter. First, the command line was too long - no problem just restrict the number of parameters (to 5 in this case) and try again. The commands within the batch file weere simply:
ECHO %1
ECHO %2
ECHO %3
ECHO %4
ECHO %5

and the prototype: "C:\users\nicc\documents\spflite\run\testsub.bat" ~i ~R ~c ~d ~e

Apart from forgetting to close my quotes on the prototype (which may have lead to the excessive command length) ~e gave a "wrong" result. ~e translates to: "C:\Program Files\...." but the ECHO only shows "C:\Program". Possibly the problem there lies with Winodws?
#edit# just noticed in the docco that I may need to enclose ~e in quotes. Still to do that fix and try so please ignore.

Macro: I have not yet lookedd at the possibility of using a macro but...I would prefer to do my compiles in the backgroud which may not be possible as I believe SPFLite suspends execution until the submitted task ends. But I am not sure about that - there was a discussion in the bugs section a few days ago which I will have to review.

Last Edit: Jul 27, 2015 4:53:28 GMT -5 by nicc: Too much docco to remember!!

Regards
Nic

nicc
Junior Member

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Posts: 114

SUBMIT Enhancements Jul 27, 2015 12:26:18 GMT -5

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Post by nicc on Jul 27, 2015 12:26:18 GMT -5

Jul 27, 2015 10:34:44 GMT -5 Robert said:

(a) In Working with the SUBMIT Command, about half way down, there is a screen shot of the Submit tab of the SPFLite Global Options. The prototype contains the program being executed, SPFSUBMIT·EXE, with its execution path, which in the example is "C:\Program files (x86)\SPFLite\". Clearly, the prototype in the example has a path.

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And it is in the middle of the discussion re SPFSUBMIT.EXE which is for submitting to Hercules. I am not using Hercules so please get Hercules out of your mind for this discussion. The documentation for the SUBMIT command states as the first line of the description "The SPFLite SUBMIT primary command allows a program or batch file to be launched from SPFLite." Nowhere in the entire article does it mention Hercules. It specifically states that it can be used to submit batch files which generally means those files ending .BAT. And this is what I am attempting to do.
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(b) In the text of this help article we find this: "The SPFSUBMIT·EXE program is provided with SPFLite to facilitate the submission of jobs for SPFLite to Hercules. The SPFLite installation will ensure this program is available to execute without requiring a full path, or you may specify a full path for this program if it is located elsewhere."

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Irrelevant - I am not submitting to Hercules and that is what SPFSUBMIT.EXE is for - according to "working with the SUBMIT Command"
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(c) The PATH information required to run the supplied SPFSUBMIT·EXE is the same PATH information required to run SPFLite itself. If SPFLite is running, and you run SPFSUBMIT·EXE, you should not require an explicit path on your prototype. (If that is not the case, then our documentation would be in error and we would have to correct it.) Have you run into a situation where you tried to run SPFSUBMIT·EXE and it didn't work? You don't mention Hercules, so I am assuming you are not using SUBMIT for that purpose.

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Irrelevant - I am not submitting to Hercules and that is what SPFSUBMIT.EXE is for - according to "working with the SUBMIT Command"
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(d) Strictly speaking, in Windows, a path is always required. However, what you probably mean is an explicit path that is other than the one in which the SPFLite executable is running under. You asked, "If one is not required where is the ·BAT to be placed?" The short answer is, where do you want it to be placed? If you want it in some specific place, you would put an explicit path to the BAT file in the prototype. If you don't want to do that, you can use the default submit directory for it.

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If the screen shot of the OPTIONS dialogue was at the top of the article and a brief description of the fields followed the description culd be along the lines of:
Full path and filename of the batch file to be executed along with SPFLite SUBMIT codes as parameters.
(Actually I think that the SUBMIT codes could be in a separate box.)
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(e) In researching this, you are correct that the documentation doesn't jump up and down and point this out, but in the Working With article, if you look at the Submit options screen, there is a field named Working Directory to be used by SUBMIT. That is the answer to your question. If you don't want to put an explicit path on your submit prototype, the BAT file or other files (like EXE) would go in the submit working directory. Of course, these are both defined on the same Submit options screen, so you're not saving much by omitting it from the prototype line. Even so, the working directory is where the temp files are written to, so you really need to define this. In my case, I made a directory called C:\SPFSUB, and I have a couple of demo BAT files there that I use when I want to test the SUBMIT command. I would have to agree that this aspect needs to be documented better.

You can see how this works if you do the following: Set up the Submit prototype line so it's a non-existent batch file, like JUNK·BAT. Now, go to any edit screen and type SUBMIT DEBUG. The submit process will run, and will leave the Windows command-line screen up. Now, look at the path shown in the command prompt. You will see that it is the same as the Submit working directory, because that's where the CMD·EXE for your BAT file is running from. By the way, if you do a DIR at this point, you will see all the temp files SUBMIT has created. You can delete them if you wish.

*****

2. "What was my ·BAT doing? Simply invoking my C compiler (TCC) which requires one parameter - the file of C code to be compiled. This must have a file type of '.c'. The only line in this ·BAT file is: TCC %1 >%2. My prototype is: path\tcc_comp·BAT ~i ~r

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(a) As documented in the SUBMIT help, the ~i submit code is the full path name of the temporary file created by submit, which is described as having a file name format of SUBMIT_JOB12345.TXT. So, when you pass this to TCC, that's the file name it gets. So far, SUBMIT is doing what we said it would.

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(b) The problem for you is that TCC doesn't want a file with an extension of .TXT to compile. I am not familiar with TCC, but in the Microsoft C compiler, there are command-line options to force the input file to be treated as C or C++ regardless of the file's extension. Perhaps TCC has a similar feature.

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You have other alternatives. If you look at the SUBMIT help article, there are additional SUBMIT codes that could help. These are:

~F = the simple file name of the original file without the path or extension

~N = the full, complete name of the original file, path included

~P = the path of the directory containing the original file

~X = the file extension of the original file, including the leading dot

You could use this information in your BAT file to rename the temporary file whose name is in the ~I submit code to any name you wanted, including one with a .C extension. If you did that, you would need to rename the file back when you are done, otherwise SPFLite's temp-file cleanup logic would not see it and it would not get cleared from the Submit working directory.

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Yes - I will probably have to set about renaming the TXT file. I was trying to avoid that.

Please note that ~x does NOT return the leading dot.
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*****

3. "Path: Win 8.1 does not require paths that include spaces to have quotes around them."

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I am not sure in what context you are referring to, but in BAT files and the conventional Windows command line, you do indeed need to put such files in quotes. The only time you can omit that is if you are entering a file name into a field of a GUI window of some kind.

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I admit to only testing with a CD command but it took that without a quibble.
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*****

4. "BROWSE for File" button: this would bring up a file tree window, as you get when you do a SAVEAS, from which you click on the file required and the box is populated with the full path and filename."

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I am afraid I still don't understand. Are you saying you want this ability within a edit session? The purpose of SUBMIT is to mimic the SUBMIT command in IBM ISPF, which is intended to submit the file you are currently editing. Are you asking to use SUBMIT while editing a certain file, but you actually want to submit some OTHER file, and you want to browse a file list to decide which one you want? I am not sure I understand why you'd want to do that. In any case, you already have the ability to submit jobs from the File Manager, by using the J or SUBMIT (SUB) line command. Did you want something in addition to this?

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No, I believe I stated it with regard to populating the protorype box.
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*****

5. "Hercules: The manual page for SUBMIT does not mention Hercules at all. It specifically starts the Description with: "The SPFLite SUBMIT primary command allows a program or batch file to be launched from SPFLite". Hercules is not mentioned until the third paragraph of "Working with SUBMIT".

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I can't argue that SUBMIT is written as you describe. However, SUBMIT is a general purpose facility, which supports Hercules, but is not tied to is. Some users may have completely different requirements, such as running an external FTP program to transmit a file to a remote system, for instance. We are not insisting that people use SUBMIT only for Hercules. But, bear in mind that this was its primary purpose, especially for users that run things like DOS/VS and MVS/SP but don't have an ISPF component; they can run SPFLite and SUBMIT jobs to their emulated mainframes, and it works well when they do this.

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Irrelevant - I am not submitting to Hercules and that is what SPFSUBMIT.EXE is for - according to "working with the SUBMIT Command"
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*****

6. "SUBARG: I am not sure about this but I think it does not resolve any of the problems. IT still needs a SUBMIT to work."

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(a) I am puzzled by this. The SUBARG is a means to define a SUBMIT argument that is specific to a file type, since each file type's PROFILE has its own SUBARG. One of the things you asked about is submitting compiles in different languages. Let's say you used C, C++ and Rexx. You could set the SUBARG in each different profile to some value, and then in your BAT file that does the actual execution, you would have IF statements that tested "~Z" or "^Z" and then conditionally run various compilers, or the same compiler with different command line options. Isn't that a problem you needed to resolve? Why do you say this doesn't resolve anything?

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I like to compartmentalise. On the mainframe I have separate jobs for compiling cobol, PL/I and assembling assembler programs. I want separate batch files for windows too so that a change for one does not muck up another. Given that, I do not see the need, for me, to set anything using SUBARG - at the moment.
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(b) SUBARG is an argument to SUBMIT. It creates a Submit code of ~Z or Z^. Of course it needs SUBMIT to work. Were you expecting something different?

*****

7. "SUBCMD: fine - a way to alias SUBMIT to another command - in my case I have aliased it to RUN for my rexx stuff."

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(a) The primary purpose of SUBCMD is to avoid SUBMIT errors. Here is the scenario: A user has a Hercules system, and has a bunch of JCL files they submit, so they get in the habit of saying SUBMIT or SUB all the time. Then, they have other files like BAT or REXX that they want to run from the edit session, and out of habit, they say SUBMIT again - only, these are not submittable files, and it causes a problem. By defining SUBCMD as RUN for BAT and REXX files, for instance, it means that as you're working, you don't have to keep "switching hats" and remembering to issue the right command - SUBMIT or RUN. You can just say SUBMIT or SUB all the time, and the SUBARG will make sure you do the right thing for the right file type.

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(b) SUBARG does not "resolve" any submit issues. All it is intended for is to AVOID actually submitting a file when you didn't really want to do that.

*****

8. "Today I ran a different batch file which simply ECHOed each parameter. First, the command line was too long - no problem just restrict the number of parameters (to 5 in this case) and try again. The commands within the batch file weere simply:

ECHO %1
ECHO %2
ECHO %3
ECHO %4
ECHO %5

and the prototype:

"C:\users\nicc\documents\spflite\run\testsub·BAT" ~i ~R ~c ~d ~e

Apart from forgetting to close my quotes on the prototype (which may have lead to the excessive command length) ~e gave a "wrong" result. ~e translates to: "C:\Program Files\...." but the ECHO only shows "C:\Program". Possibly the problem there lies with Windows?

#edit# just noticed in the docco that I may need to enclose ~e in quotes. Still to do that fix and try so please ignore."

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(a) As noted above, as far as I know, any file specified on a BAT file that has embedded spaces must be quoted. Even if a command line itself could handle embedded blanks (and I don't believe it could) the batch file is read by a separate process which then hands command lines to Windows for execution, so in a BAT file, it's a two-step process. Command line values with embedded blanks would never 'survive' that two-step process without being quoted.

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(b) If you are still having problems after properly quoting your file names, you should give us a copy of your BAT file and we can try to replicate the issue.

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Nope - getting the quotes right resolved it. It was successful execution of that batch file that let me know that ~x does not have the leading dot.
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*****

9. "Macro: I have not yet looked at the possibility of using a macro but...I would prefer to do my compiles in the background which may not be possible as I believe SPFLite suspends execution until the submitted task ends. But I am not sure about that - there was a discussion in the bugs section a few days ago which I will have to review."

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(a) Doing a background compile is more than feasible, but it's not SPFLite's fault if it doesn't run in the background. The only way you can make a thing like that happen is to put a START command in your BAT file. That will launch your process and then "let go" so SPFLite can resume what it was doing.

(b) I would have to say again, I suspect that SUBMIT is not even what you should be using anyway. You are running batch files. That is what RUN is intended for, unless I am misunderstanding something.
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And that is what the SUBMIT command is for - according to the command description.
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(c) It seems like neither of us completely understands the other side here. We need to continue this dialog to get to the bottom of it.

(d) Finally, I hope you will keep notes on your learning experience. You say that we don't have good examples, well fair enough. Maybe YOU can contribute some examples, as you learn from this experience. The fact is, very few SPFLite users have even tried to SUBMIT, and most of them use it for Hercules, and the Help doc already covers that case pretty well. Try to write up what you are doing and how you solved your problems. We might be able to incorporate your story in the next version of the Help when it comes out.

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Will do
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Regards
Nic

George
Administrator

Posts: 4,052

SUBMIT Enhancements Jul 27, 2015 14:56:12 GMT -5

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Post by George on Jul 27, 2015 14:56:12 GMT -5

nicc: Robert has asked me to jump in here, so here goes, hopefully I won't make things worse.

First off, you're correct the ~x variable was incorrect, my error in the last set of changes. I've corrected it for the next release, meanwhile you'll just have to suffer with inserting the period yourself.

One thing you should keep in mind, SPFLite provides a variety of commands to interface with external programs and scripts (SUBMIT, CMD, RUN, and FILTER). They were each created to satisfy a particular need at the time, and so everything about them, including the Doc., is geared to describing how that particular need was satisfied.

SUBMIT was created specifically to satisfy the equivalent of the mainframe SUBMIT command. That is, copy a jobstream to the internal reader of some other running virtual machine (like Hercules). So quite naturally the documentation leans heavily on the assumption that that is what the command will be used for.

The reality is that all SUBMIT is doing is saving the current edit session, and then invoking some DOS program, EXEC, or BAT file. Nothing that couldn't be done with a CREATE command and a CMD command to invoke the DOS program.

But SUBMIT does a lot more in aid of helping out. It assigns JOB numbers, creates and deletes the temporary files used, monitors for Msg files from the invoked DOS program and displays pop-ups of the Submit status. And it greatly assists in building the DOS command itself by providing access to many dynamic variables related to the current file.

I have re-read your last note to see what the essence of your complaints really are:

You don't use Hercules, and object to so much documentation referring to it.
Your compiler can't cope with a source file that doesn't have a .C file type. We'll make a ToDo item to use the edit extension for the temporary file.
You found a minor problem with the ~x variable, one easily overcome.
You suggest a Browse popup to make setting up the prototype command easier. Fine, that's another something for the To-Do list.
You suggest some items of the Doc should be moved to the top to make them easier to spot. Perhaps, but it takes a lot of words to describe SUBMIT, and the whole article really needs to be read. Skimming it and then complaining because you didn't see something is hardly a valid complaint.

I see no mention (other than ~x) that SPFLite SUBMIT has not done what it is supposed to do.

Your comment about using various languages and needing different BAT files to do the compile is exactly what the SUBARG Profile setting was set up to address. SUBMIT while editing a C source would use a C BAT files, ASM would use an ASM BAT file, etc. All with a simple SUB command. You simply have to setup your SUBARG values and the Prototype command properly so the correct substitution will occur.

But maybe another command like CMD would suit you better to do a simple BAT file submission? Or actually try the sample compile macro route?

I think you have let the Hercules aspect along with some lacking in the documentation prevent you from using SUBMIT effectively. You have identified a couple minor changes we should perhaps make, but nothing which is a show-stopper to prevent you from making this work.

George

nicc
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Posts: 114

SUBMIT Enhancements Jul 27, 2015 15:53:52 GMT -5

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Post by nicc on Jul 27, 2015 15:53:52 GMT -5

Sorry if I come across as adversarial - I am more exasperated. But I am beginning to understand how it all hangs together because of my 'playing'.
I am not sayong that there is too much focus on Hercules - my original post did not mention Hercules at all. Robert introduced it and his comments came through as thugh I was using SPFSUBMIT.

One thing I tried was to run my batch file via the RUN command but then one does not get the ~ submit codes but this may be irrelevant.

As I said, things seem to be slowly falling into place so I am going to take some time out to try various things and see if I can produce some documentation in a format that would have helped me avoid a few mistakes/mis-understandings.

Regards
Nic

George
Administrator

Posts: 4,052

SUBMIT Enhancements Jul 28, 2015 11:36:43 GMT -5

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Post by George on Jul 28, 2015 11:36:43 GMT -5

nicc, just using RUN will work if the file association for .C properly points to the TCC compiler, and it is happy with a single filename operand. If/when you get some ideas on improving the documentation, please forward them. We're always happy to get useful feedback from our users.

George